I have to say, it was strangely disgusting yesterday to listen to all the beltway teevee people sit and wonder aloud how a person could manage to shoot 40 people with just a handgun. It’s one of those little things that underscores how different the world is that most of these people come from.
And today we’ve learned that one of the guns the shooter was wielding not just any handgun, but the FN Five-Seven, a tactical assault pistol that holds TWENTY ROUNDS per magazine (and they come new from the factory with 3 magazines). I purposely posted a picture that shows the cartridge this gun uses. It’s not a traditional pistol round. It’s a tiny little bullet with a fuckload of powder behind it. That makes it capable of, among other things, piercing body armor. That, along with its 20-round capacity is one of the reasons it was targeted for federal ban in 2005. Obviously, that never happened.
My opinion on gun control is that the genie is out of the bottle, and there’s really not a whole lot we can or should do. But good god — twenty fucking rounds? At the very least, I’m not going to pretend that this is a sporting gun or a self-defense weapon. It’s something that was designed for the sole purpose of slaughtering people by the dozen.
November 6, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Jesus, that’s just a smaller M-16 round. I remember my senior NCO’s, most of whom were Vietnam veterans, talking about 5.62’s entering below the rib cage, coming out the neck, and chewing up everything in between because of the tumble as soon as the bullet hit something. And this thing is designed to do the exact same thing. Fucking nuts.
If you didn’t want to pony up for a new gun, you could always get a 20 round clip for your paw-paw’s old .45. Not armor piercing, but an acceptable way to go for the budget-conscious disgruntled.
I agree mostly with the genie part, but the gun show loophole is definitely ripe for the closing.
November 7, 2009 at 6:19 am
CAn’t sleep for Christ sake! Nice gun.
November 7, 2009 at 2:30 pm
What offends you the most?
The cartridge?
The magazine capacity?
That the gun can be bought legally?
November 7, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I’m not sure if “offended” is the right word. But damn.
I also think it’s bizarre that 1/3 of the magazines at Kroger are stuff like “Tactical Assault Automatic Hand Cannon Today” instead of say, “Cook’s Illustrated.”
November 7, 2009 at 5:44 pm
I, too, have noticed the inordinate amount of mags dedicated to gundom.
I am not sure what this says about our culture. I know I love guns but don’t own any at this point in my life.
I note the civilian officer who ended up out gunning the psycho was hit four times and still able to shoot the asshole. So much for it being a super weapon with silver armor bullets.
While this weapon did an horrifically good job of killling a dozen people, a 357 magnum would have more than likely killed more including the officer who would have taken 4 rounds from that cannon and surely not been able to return fire.
As it is, I am glad she could.
November 7, 2009 at 8:45 pm
HK: “It’s one of those little things that underscores how different the world is that most of these people come from.”
Your comment recalls candidate Obama’s injudicious remark about “guns and God” in economically depressed areas. People who know about guns usually do not become Beltway pundits. Guns appeal to a certain demographic.
Also, if the Army just let this guy go when he tried to get out, this tragedy could have been averted, IMO. This is not the first time when stress (May 2009) or unwillingness to fight fellow Muslims (2003) led a U.S. soldier to turn on on other soldiers — e.g. the attack in 2003: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.violence/index.html
November 7, 2009 at 11:04 pm
I don’t know about that. A .357 packs a hell of a punch, but you can’t shoot it 20 times, reload it in 2 seconds, then shoot it 20 more times.
And I’ll go ahead and be the first to admit that the Five-Seven looks positively bad ass. You might recognize it as sidearm in Battlestar Galactica.
November 7, 2009 at 11:19 pm
I would not want to be shot but I would choose the 5.7 mm over the 357 if I had to be. Your point about reloading is well taken.
November 8, 2009 at 9:44 am
Plain talk from a well-armed liberal Democrat:
First, full disclosure: The current Advocatus Armory
Two Sig-Sauer 226 (laser sight, extended clip)
Saiga Semiautomatic Shotgun (folding stock, tactical flashlight)
Mossberg 590 Riot Gun (tactical flashlight)
S&W XD in .45 ACP (laser sight)
Winchester 20 Gauge Riot Gun (Mrs. Advocatus’ favorite, quick sling, tac light)
Two Concealed Weapons permits. And you bet your ass we carry.
We’ve also spent beaucoup bucks on tactical training, thousands of hours on maintenance, and hundreds on securing the weapons properly, but in such a way that they can be quickly deployed.
This amounts to a tiny fraction of our resources, in both time and money. A few hours a month, a few thousand dollars.
Now, why, might you ask, do a pair of an urban professionals maintain a squad’s worth of ironmongery, and keep in practice with it? Three reasons:
1) I work in the criminal courts. I know what’s out there in my community. There are people within ten minutes drive of your house right now who would cut up your family for fun, and make you watch. And it does happen.
2) The cops can’t possibly get to you in time to save your ass if you’re attacked. Even assuming you’re able to summon them. If you can’t defend yourself, you’re defenseless. And if you think you’re Ghandi, fine. How about your kids?
3) One year ago, a witness from a case of mine who was angry about the outcome of a case kicked in the door of our apartment at 2:00 am. He then fled. He was arrested later that night having knifed two people. It was only by the grace of God that he didn’t come in. We weren’t ready then.
Last month, a former client followed my wife into the lobby of our building. He said vulgar things to her, and threatened her. She presented her weapon properly, and he fled.
That’s twice I could have lost what was most important in the world to me. So you can damned well count on my being ready to defend it. And, Deo Volente, it will always be so in our house. You can stuff statistics about how many crackheads get shot with their own guns, or how many idiots use their weapons improperly or illegally straight up your ejection port. I know what my weapons are for, and how to safely and properly maintain and secure them. And if you want my political support, you’d better leave me and mine alone. I know you can’t protect me, I don’t want a world with a policeman on every corner. My wife and I accept the responsibility of free citizens to protect ourselves. And we insist on having the means to do so.
November 8, 2009 at 9:56 am
I wanna party with you, cowboy! Get the three of us together, forget about it.
November 8, 2009 at 10:13 am
now that we have health care reform moving down the track, lets start the gun ban!………………(i know,i am a republican and we are not supposed to be saying stuff like this) but whats the chance of making guns illegal?
November 8, 2009 at 10:17 am
And we’re all ready for the zombocalypse, too, Harry. :-)
Man, it’s getting scary out there. But there’s more to think about than just gun ownership.
The observation has been made that the murders on Ft. Hood would have been impossible if the victims hadn’t been herded into an area where they weren’t allowed to carry a weapon. That’s true, but who wants to be in the middle of a firefight?
Here’s my question for the gallery. What public responsibilities come with gun ownership? I’m genuinely conflicted on all these questions, and I’d love to hear a responsible discussion of them.
1) Should all firearms be registered? The fact that a gun is registered doesn’t keep it from being stolen, but it might be a substantial aid in solving many crimes.
2) How much training should be required to own a gun? To carry concealed? I think the current training is inadequate. To take the Ft. Hood example, a roomful of people blazing away without any fire discipline is at least as scary as the lone gunman.
3) What should be the requirements regarding securing firearms and ammo. Should the cops be able to come in and check whether or not you’ve secured your weapons properly? A stolen weapon is a danger to the whole community, not to mention the accidents that occur when a child gets ahold of one.
4) Should the ammo capacity of weapons, or the types of ammo available be limited? I’m dubious about this one, since I think it would only put law-abiding folks at a tactical disadvantage.
What do you think?
November 8, 2009 at 10:21 am
@ wvuhscex
Making them illegal wouldn’t solve the problem, since the bad guys will still have ‘em. And a firearm is really the only practical way for a 82 year old, 100 pound homeowner to protect him/herself from a 200 pound, 20 year old home invader.
But there are still questions to be answered. It’s not an all-or-nothing proposition.
November 8, 2009 at 10:47 am
Yeah, you can’t outlaw guns now. There could be some restrictions on the availability of ammo, and, again, I think closing the gun show loophole would get widespread support, but HK’s right about the genie out of the bottle letting the cat out of the bag and both riding the horse out of the barn before retroactive closure.
I could also conceivably see support for a federal law that ALL private hand gun transactions must go through a licensed dealer.
As far as concealed carry, I’d like to see at least a little more restrictive qualifications. I look at the list for Kanawha and think “Good God! That’s the last person that should be able to carry a pistol”. And the actual capability qualification should be FAR more restrictive. People should have to pass a live fire qualification test every 6 months, not just a one time class.
November 8, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I agree we have a duty to protect ourselves. When my son was born I sold my weapons and got an intelligent, loyal, big toothed german sheppard who would dutifully rip the balls off of the first asshole who came through my door uninvited but would lick the face off anyone brought in by my wife, my son or I.
She won’t go off while I am cleaning her, she never jams except for an occasional bout of constipation, and I can get her wet and not worry about rust.
She knows 8 hand signal commands including sit, lay, stay, follow, bark, growl, lunge and bite. Unlike a police dog after she bites I can call her off. She has an excellent record chasing Seventh Day Adventists to the edge of our property and would not bite unless told to do so.
Plus, a dog is much more fun to cozy up with than a pistol.
November 8, 2009 at 12:36 pm
In Virginia we can pass the safety course for a carry permit by taking a class on line.
November 8, 2009 at 1:20 pm
“In Virginia we can pass the safety course for a carry permit by taking a class on line.”
See, that’s insane.
November 8, 2009 at 1:51 pm
There ya go. The problem with the extremists on either side is “we want all guns banned” versus “no guns should ever be restricted in any way.”
For 99% of homeowners, the best self defense is a perfectly legal shotgun. Especially inside the home. You can expect to hit your target on the first try, it will scare the shit out of anyone in the vicinity, but the projectiles won’t travel outside the house and so are unlikely to hit anyone outside the kill zone, I mean the room. :)
Most permits are too-easily obtained. Drivers’ tests should be harder, and a concealed carry gun permit should be really tough. To get a driver’s license in WV today, you drive around a closed course. When I got my driver’s permit years ago, I drove on city streets and had to park between two sticks thrown down on the ground, none of that barrels crap. An online friend just got a motorcycle certification in Virginia, and it was a week of eight hour days of class time, riding and testing. Why is a concealed carry permit easier to get than a motorcycle permit?
Dogs are great for your home, even a friendly but enthusiastic barker will scare off anyone simply looking for an easy theft. If you are the type of person that might attract bad guys (you know who you are), then you might need more.
November 8, 2009 at 1:52 pm
…and I understand that in Vermont you don’t need a permit at all.
Have you ever heard of a permit holder’s poor marksmanship taking out anybody unintentionally?
I don’t think putting more restrictions on the people that arm themselves legally puts more pressure on criminals.
November 8, 2009 at 2:06 pm
One of the things that scares the crap out of me when I think of Ft. Hood, Columbine, VT, etc… are the conceal carry people who are absolutely certain that they will react exactly as they believe they will when they fantasize about being in that situation.
November 8, 2009 at 2:30 pm
That Harry Kawasaki sure is one cool cucumber.
November 8, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Obama is after our guns, lets be real. My advice to all real freedom-loving Americans is to scrape up very nickel you can, buy as many guns and as much ammo as you can possibly find, and bury them deep in the ground where the gummint can’t find it. They are treading on us. Sell your ATVs, your bass boat – whatever you have to – divest and buy weapons. And bury them. Take several with you (clips out, guys) to the airport when you fly and demand your Constitutional right to travel weaponized. And always – ALWAYS – travel with several in your trunk if you plan to exercise your Constitutional right to drink and drive.
November 8, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Both Advocatus and WVState make excellent points.
To chime in on the excellent issues Advocatus raises: yes, they should all be registered, why not? All gun owners should be trained to use them, and trained prior to getting the registration. The gendarmes should never be able to come in and check whether you’ve secured your weapons properly, can you imagine the abuse?
WVState answers your last 2 questions: get a shotgun. It is the best home protection weapon there is (i.e. capacity and ammo should be limited). There are a whole lot more steroidally or hormonally or drug-induced aggressive nutcases to abuse something like an AK-47 than law-abiding homeowners seeking to protect children. I actually know a guy who has several AK-47s. He is a scary guy too.
When my daughter was small, I was home alone. She was in her baby bed by the front door. A drugged out whack job started trying to jimmy the front door open, and he was armed. I was in a fluffy pink nightie, and was trying new exotic hairdos. Well, I grabbed my shotgun. It was loaded and in a safe, convenient place. I had practiced with it many times. I stood to the side of the front door, and waited. I was going to blow his head off. Lucky for him, he couldn’t get the front door open. He started to skulk around the perimeter of the house, trying the windows, I followed him w/ the shotgun from the inside (and this gave me time to call 911). He ended up at the backdoor and so did I w/ my shotgun, but the cops came before he was able to gain entry and I turned him into lace. The cops were laughing at me in the pink w/ the shotgun, but the indignity was bearable. I never even broke a sweat. And I never thought for a second that my baby was in jeopardy.
Ban insane weapons & ammo. Make training mandatory for the good ones. Buy shotguns and German Shepherds.
November 8, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Great story, Jolene. And I think someone in a fluffy pink nightie with a scattergun is FAR scarier than someone in fatigues! :-)
But seriously, folks, it does you no good to own a weapon if you don’t 1) train, and 2) have it accessible. You will not perform up to the level of your need, you will perform down to the level of your training.
HK, in the future, when someone claims we’re all just a batch of knee-jerk libs on this blog, can we just refer them to this thread? :-)
November 8, 2009 at 5:39 pm
If you’d had an AK handy, you could have shot him all the way over ————— there instead of having to risk his getting close enough to get gooey red spots all over your pink nighty.
November 8, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Plain talk from an anarchist: If I gotta go anywhere near criminal court, I’m asking Advocatus to escort me. Dude knows his firearms.
November 8, 2009 at 6:59 pm
But instead of Nada Zapata, I might have gotten Scooter the paper delivery kid or Brutus the German Shepherd.
You can miss the bullseye by a mile with a shotgun and still score w/ no collateral damage.
As far as handguns go, my hubby made me get rid of it in case I got mad and it happened to be handy.
Note Bene: Register, Train then Shoot (a reasonable, legal weapon) –& only at the bad guys.
Really, you gun nuts out there: what is the rationale for the heavy artillery? I would like to know, because none of that makes any sense to me. “Gun nut” is generic, nor pejorative or gender-based.
November 8, 2009 at 7:19 pm
It’s funny how this issue triggers (!) intense reactions from otherwise rational folks. Back in my Oregon days, the surest way to start an argument was to mention I keep a Glock 17 in my nightstand.
It’s even more important now that I live in lower Edgewood.
November 8, 2009 at 8:17 pm
I must have hung out with different Oregonians, unless those arguments centered around your awful choice of the 9MM over the .40 or .45ACP
November 8, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Now, now. The 9mm is a fine round for civilian use. I load hydra-shok rounds. They’ll do the job. And it’s a easier weapon for my wife to fire accurately. There’s a lot to be said for using the same weapon – maintenance, accessories, ammo, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0yRXygp3WE
November 9, 2009 at 12:31 am
I’m with Advocatus and Jolene.
Jolene, I had a similar experience 30 years ago when I was young and living alone in a Charleston apt. Some guy tried to force open my door in the middle of the night. The difference was I didn’t have a gun, but I bluffed, screaming at the door that I had a shotgun, my dad had taught me to use it, and if the guy did not move and move fast, I would blow his head off. Luckily, he believed me, pleaded with me not to shoot, and ran.
I realized I could not count on such amazing luck the next time. I went out the next day and bought my first gun, which I registered, and which I still own. I was trained to use it properly. My dad gave me the best advice ever, which was never to aim it at anyone unless I was intending to kill them and willing to live with that.
I now live in a very large city in another state with murders on the news every night and more nut jobs within a 20-mile radius than in the whole state of WV (which I realize is saying something). My friends can’t understand why I have a gun. I can’t understand why they don’t. I’m a lifelong liberal, and I’ve just always liked the thought of living to vote in the next election if for no other reason so I could irritate the people who think I want to take away their guns.
November 9, 2009 at 6:37 am
hey Jolene, i was flying home last night from a research meeting and was sitting next to a retired Marine (probably about 45 yrs old and had served 12 years)….he was “fairly” ,but not overly hawkish. We discussed this gun control issue. He stated EXACTLY what you said. Get a PUMP shotgun (says just the sound of the pumping action scares the shit out of someone) and a dog……..but as important have an alarm system. He said most people with pistols,in that type situation,are too nervous to be accurate,and apparently with a shotgun you just have to point in the general direction to get their attention. Interesting
November 9, 2009 at 11:49 am
Shotgun for home defense, high quality pistol (.357mag minimum caliber) and pepper spray for daily carry. If you train regularly, and get professional instruction, you improve your odds dramatically. But don’t buy into the myth that having a shotgun means you can’t miss. You can. It requires training to properly use.
The advice about a dog and an alarm system is great, but an alarm summons police who will be minutes away at a minimum. Having poochie about has many benefits aside from security, but every dog I adopt just turns into a big, friendly baby, no matter what breed I get. Might distract an intruder by insisting on belly rubs, but that’s about it.
By all means, get a dog, and a home security system. But your most reliable defense is yourself, properly armed and trained. Nothing, but nothing substitutes for the synergy of proper tool and proper training when the shitstorm hits. And there is a great comfort in the knowledge that you are skilled, and able to protect yourself, your home, and your family.
Make no mistake, the world is getting crazier, and more violent. Don’t be paranoid, be prepared. Let’s hope this is all a waste of time.
November 9, 2009 at 11:55 am
BTW, my wife and I spend about two hours a week practicing, maintaining weapons, etc. We both know what we will do to defend our home, where our fire responsibilities are, etc. Small investment in peace of mind, and we enjoy doing this together.
We’re not right-wing crazies, but we do take responsibility for the security of our home. If everyone did that, crime would be a lot less popular.
November 9, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Get a german shepard, nice docile family pets until a threat happens and then the good ones turn into an entirely different creature indeed.
Unlike the under trained police dogs a good german shepard will stop biting when she is told to. Well, sometimes you have to tell her twice….
November 9, 2009 at 1:27 pm
saw a patient today who buried her 17 yr old grandson last week when a rifle fell and it accidentally went off!……..i asked how come it wasnt locked up?………
November 9, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I see all you lawyer types are getting a tad paranoid.
November 9, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Fairly Hawkish Marine has it right. There’s no other sound like it and it has a succinct, wordless ultimatum about it. If potential perp is still outside and can’t see in they wouldn’t even have to know if it was a male or female wielding it.
Advocatus, an average size female or smaller probably shouldn’t be packing a .357. I’d say a .410 pump with #4 shot should do it unless you live in a mansion. Be sure to take the magazine plug out if it has one.
After all the stories here I feel pretty damn lucky that I’ve never felt the need to have a loaded gun handy at home.
November 9, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Hippie Killer, you seriously want to use this shooting as a reason to strip the honest US citizens of their 2nd Admendment rights? Maybe your just saying you want the Govt to tell us what type of weapons we can or can’t own. This was not Joe Public here, it was a Muslim, serving in our Military. Call me crazy but does that not set off some alarms more than the type of weapon that was used?
November 9, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Now now. I’m not foolish enough to think that anyone’s gun rights are going to be stripped away. As I said, the genie is out of the bottle, and we’re all just going to have to deal. And there are lots of Muslims in our military who manage not turn in to spree killers.
November 9, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Hey wvuhscex & Harry: that’s what I used: a pump shotgun– No sound like that sound.
Porte Crayon: this is for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5puAN1PGQw
November 9, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Nidal Hasan is to Islam what Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were to Doom.
November 9, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Maybe so, I bet there will be an anti Muslim backlash in the Army. The Freedom of Religion is as equally as important as the Right to Bear Arms. I dont share their religous views and Im not throwing stones at the Muslims. However, if you break the law then that’s another story. I hope they execute Malik Hasan.
November 9, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I am generally against the death penalty, but it won’t bother me in the least to see that guy swing from a rope. Sorry, ya’ll.
November 9, 2009 at 3:55 pm
The anti-Muslim backlash will come because of the He’s A Muslim!! crowd (yeah, I’m lookin’ at you). The man found a horrible outlet for his mental illness like Harris and Klebold, and it could’ve been Jodie Foster/Iris or Megadeth or Doom or bullying or… you get the point.
As far as the other topic…ever see this gun-related cautionary tale?
November 9, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Harry, can you honestly say you wouldn’t look at your muslim squadmates “differently” if you were getting ready to deploy or were already in Iraq/Afganistan?
If not, then Mr. you’re a better man than I.
Other than the fact that Hasan chose to kill a bunch of people who never pissed him off – why would you say he is mentally ill?
November 9, 2009 at 5:29 pm
No, I wouldn’t based on their being Muslim. They’ve either proven themselves to be good soldiers and at least minimally able to keep unit cohesion or they haven’t. If he or she has, I’d probably go out of my way to help keep bigots from making their life harder as much as I could. Same with gays. You’re either doing your job or you’re not.
That last sentence was meant to be funny, right?
November 9, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I haven’t heard anybody else say he was mentally ill.
November 9, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Mentally stable do not commit mass shootings.
November 9, 2009 at 6:28 pm
missed a ‘people’ there.
November 9, 2009 at 7:06 pm
So if this guy made a decision based on his faith, that his duty was to take out as many infidels as possible – you call that mental illness.
Because he has no hope of escape?
or
His branch of Islam is insane?
or
What?
November 9, 2009 at 7:51 pm
What’s the difference between killing co-worker “infidels” and impressing Jodie Foster or getting revenge for ostracization, real or perceived?
Nothing, IMO. The reason for extreme and unwarranted brutality is really just forensic, as in ‘the warning signs are…’.
When someone is exhibiting increasingly erratic behavior, extreme agitation, etc… and then goes on to commit mass murder like that, it’s a pretty good indication of mental illness, right?
November 9, 2009 at 7:53 pm
There were reports he did suffer from harrassment (camel jockey signs). His neighbors were rude to him. Other Muslims have had to deal with this too. Doesn’t justify killing but it’s something the military must address.
To me there were two flags that he might not be mentally stable. First, he was a psychiatrist and it’s not unusual for people with mental illness to become shrinks or counselors because they’re trying to unlock their own secrets. Also, he was never able to make a marriage match and this would be very unusual. What was wrong with him that none of the women or their families wanted him? After all, he’s a doctor.
There are people questioning why no one understood how dangerous he was but he has to be the first doctor to commit a mass shooting. So much for mass killer profiling.
November 9, 2009 at 9:39 pm
By his own internet postings, from months or years before, he sees self-sacrafice as a noble goal, and possibly the only weapon left to “his” people. He can’t hack it as a counselor for returning vets, but maybe he is rationalizing his Army position as a non-combatant. Through poor evaluations he gets transferred and now will have to face other people of his faith in conflict. He just can’t do it, so he gives all his stuff away and goes to the base and fulfills what he sees as his duty.
What is inherently illogical about that?
November 10, 2009 at 11:03 am
After this incident, I was reminded of Malcolm X’s comment following the assassination of JFK that the chickens have come home to roost. Just as X meant that the violence allowed to persist in the segregated South had finally spread to the nation’s highest powers, here we see one repercussion of two wars frequently portrayed as defending Western values against militant Islam. These wars are essentially a Western Christian nation (or nations, for those who believe in our “coalition”) killing Muslims and nearly EVERY person in Iraq and Afghanistan sees it that way regardless of how they feel about al-Qaeda and the Talibs. It’s their problem and not for white folks to meddle. It’s how we’d feel if George Bush had held on to our government through military occupation and the Russians intervened militarily–although most people on this blog would enjoy seeing Bush go, you’d be a little peeved when the Russians didn’t go home. But we’ve completely disregarded the will of Afghans and Iraqis, turning this into an American issue for Americans to decide. Meanwhile, we kill a few hundred people in an apartment block, or a few dozen people at a fucking wedding with hardly a blink, gotta break a few eggs, right? Wrong when those eggs are your family, through blood or faith. So let’s not blithely accept the massive amounts of death we deliver on others then get appalled when the SAME fight comes back on us. What did we think would happen? After all, we entered Afghanistan with the intention of bringing the fight to al-Qaeda. And now it’s back.
November 10, 2009 at 1:36 pm
“What is inherently illogical about that?”
There’s nothing illogical about your premise, but there’s not much logic in what it describes. What about that signals good mental health to you?
What I’m saying is that Nidal Hasan didn’t do what he did because he is a Muslim any more than Timothy McVeigh did what he did because he was a white Christian or Klebold and Harris because they were bored kids in a relatively affluent suburb or Cho because he was Korean.
The common thread isn’t demographic, it’s anti-social behavior, disaffectedness, and obsession with a single grievance. And THAT’s what the military should be looking for, not a Koran in the wall locker.
November 10, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I don’t understand why you would say that his faith has no bearing on his actions. The man is (not exactly) on record applauding similar acts, and quoted the Koran (no – i don’t know if it’s an actual quote) while attempting to martyr himself.
I mean, I get why you’d want to dissuade your fellow crackers from going out lynching in payback, but for god’s sake – be realistic.
November 12, 2009 at 9:15 am
Michelle Malkin coins new hate speech term on Fox and Friends in relation to Ft. Hood shooting: “Deadly Diversity”.
November 12, 2009 at 10:57 pm
That’s unfortunate, and only makes it harder to recruit Arab linguists, intel assets, etc…
It is a bit surprising that the same president that chose to wax historic (before all the facts were in) when asked about the Professor Gates incident is so anxious to caution us against jumping to conclusions about Hasan’s religion playing a role in his actions.
Do I chalk that up to his ripening as a leader, or get pissed at the implication that an unknown white cop doing his job and not killing anybody is more sinister than a muslim mass-murderer of color?
November 13, 2009 at 1:22 am
Why do you refuse to consider that mental illness was the cause and not Hasan’s religion?
November 13, 2009 at 6:21 am
Harry, there was something on one of the “news” stations last night about his mental condition. There was mention of his instability, and someone even mentioned that psychosis was questioned during his training?????……and I thought Rachel Maddow was a democratic,liberal?……i just watched a clip of her skewering Obama!…….great,just when you thought things were improving the village idiots are running amuck
November 13, 2009 at 8:30 am
wvuhscex, it was obvious before that day was over that Hasan was operating from mental illness and not jihadism. All the classic signs were there. Disaffected, unable to have relationships with women, obsession with a single grievance, always agitated,…. But the PTSD by proxy thing is mostly crap, I think.
And because the biggest obstacle to effective problem solving is correctly identifying the problem, it’s pretty damn important that they get this right and not cause MORE trouble.
As far as Maddow, she’s of the far left wing of Dem. Party and one of the very frustrating people who seem like they would gladly lose majorities in congress if they don’t get exactly what they want from Dem pols. I put Jane Hamsher in that category, too.
Set your DVR to MSNBC at 9am-11am and watch the best political show on tv. Dylan Ratigan gets it done.
November 13, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Harry,they all better get this right or the republicans will be back!……..
November 13, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Yep. What JMM said:
November 23, 2009 at 8:00 am
Just found this discussion. Would like to point out that the military round originally designed for this weapon (SS109) is not allowed for import to the US civilian market. It is the dreaded armor piercing round that propels a 31 grain bullet at 2350 ft/s. It is composed of a steel penetrator and an aluminum core. It is classified as armor piercing ammunition by the ATF. The politically correct round for civilian use is the SS192 hollow point.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm
November 23, 2009 at 10:34 am
“The politically correct round”
That’s right. The 2nd Amendment guaranteed the right for psychotics to able to penetrate the vest of cops, and the 4th allows us to crawl up the ass of everyone that follows Muhammad.
Nice country you have there. What do you call it?
November 23, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Since you asked, Mr. Kawasaki, my Country is the United States of America, where people are free and each held accountable for their actions. Where government performs solely within the restrictions of the Bill of Rights and Constitution which, in turn, allows each of us to take great individual risks and fail…as well as to succeed. My Country gives the power to the people to decide their destiny and does not suffer fools who blame others, their parents, their environment, their race, religion, or mental health for their failures. There is evil in this Country and it does indeed exist. However, there are many good and brave people too who combat it on a daily basis. It is not someone else’s job. Each of us has a responsibility to provide, share, protect others and grow. No one else in my Country can or should assume that total responsibility for me. It is each of our jobs to preserve this ideal. But that was the original United States of America.
Perhaps one day soon we will have it back.
November 23, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Damion says it for me as well. Europeans sneer at what they call our “Cult of Individuality,” meaning that we hold the individual to be more important than the state. Europeans, on the other hand, have been owned by their rulers for millenia, while Americans have not. In Europe the citizen exists to serve the state. In America, the other way round. I’ll take Americans with backbone over European slaveys any day.
November 23, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Have it back from what? The people who voted for the other guy?
November 23, 2009 at 7:49 pm
“there are many good and brave people too who combat it on a daily basis. It is not someone else’s job.”
The cops who were shot might disagree with you there. And why does a restriction on bullets that are designed to penetrate their body armor cramp your “individuality”? Why would any civilian other than a criminal need that sort of thing?
If you tie the gist of our constitution to cop-killer bullets and racial profiling, you miss the point of it entirely.
November 23, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Yeah, would one of you guys be so kind as to point me to the part of the Constitution that guarantees my right to armor piercing bullets?
November 23, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Uh, HK, I gotta call Hannity and ask him. Be back in a minute.
November 23, 2009 at 8:24 pm
I’ve never been much for the knee-on-neck complaint, but since your little Beckian speech had a Boot-Strap section, I’ll point out that Ray Kroc wouldn’t have made the first fucking penny without minimum-wage burger flippers, and responsibility goes both ways.