Part of the motivation behind Joe Manchin’s Health Sciences Center power grab is pretty simple: he wants to get rid of the pop tax. You might not even be aware that there is an excise tax on soft drinks in West Virginia, but there has been since 1951. And all of it — about $15 million — goes to operate the HSC in Morgantown. The tax, which is paid by the manufactures and distributors of soft drinks, currently runs at about 1 cent per half liter, and ends up providing about a quarter of the HSC’s budget.
But why does Joe Manchin want to get rid of the pop tax? Here’s a clue: it’s not because Average Joe is lying awake at night thinking for ways to save West Virgina’s strapped taxpayers 1 cent on every half liter of Mountain Dew Code Red they buy. Hell no.
Joe wants to get rid of the pop tax because it’s a $15 million giveaway to his good friends in the — stay with me here — powerful (and largely out-of-state) soft drink bottling and distribution lobby. These guys have a lot of money to throw around, and they’ve thrown a lot of it at Joe. They’ve lobbied him hard over the past few years to get rid of the pop tax. And Joe is finally set to give his dear, rich, out of state friends in the soda lobby a 15 million dollar payoff.
That’s right. Joe Manchin is ready to sell out the WVU Health Sciences Center to out-of-state soda bottlers.
What a great guy.
To be clear though, I can easily imagine a scenario where I’d be all for getting rid of something like a tax on soda. But this ain’t it. Good luck even quantifying the effect the pop tax has on the average West Virginia family.
And I’m guessing that Manchin won’t be losing any friends at Marshall, or even at WVU’s medical center in Charleston, since they don’t see a penny of the pop tax money. And maybe that is unfair. And maybe it’s also true that WVU hospitals should fork over more of their cash to help run the HSC instead of continuing to lean on the taxpayers year after year. But I assure you, Joe Manchin doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about any of that. I doubt if it’s even crossed his mind.
This is nothing more than a brazen giveaway to Joe’s wealthy out-of-state friends and donors in the soft drink bottling and distribution industry. They are the only people who really want the pop tax gone, and they’ve spent big money to make it happen. And it looks like they’re going to get what they want.
_________________
THE RULING PARTY:
If you Google “pop tax,” the third return you get is an article about how much the pop tax sucks by former state Republican Party chairman and current West Liberty State College President Robin “Rob” Capehart. Yet another example of Manchin’s policies and interests lining up perfectly not only big business, but West Virginia Republican power players.
It’s also worth noting Caphart got the West Liberty job via another rigged search, to the objection of just about everyone besides Joe Manchin. Democrats in Manchin’s own administration were told to cool it.
Tags: Joe Manchin
June 23, 2008 at 5:15 am
Dominion Post June 23
On the front page
http://olive.dominionpost.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=RFBvc3QvMjAwOC8wNi8yMyNBcjAwMTA0&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
new alumni center
http://olive.dominionpost.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=RFBvc3QvMjAwOC8wNi8yMyNBcjAwMTAz&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
June 23, 2008 at 5:20 am
Heart plan
http://olive.dominionpost.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=RFBvc3QvMjAwOC8wNi8yMyNBcjAwNzAy&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
interim suggestion letter
http://olive.dominionpost.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=RFBvc3QvMjAwOC8wNi8yMyNBcjAwODAx&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom
June 23, 2008 at 6:03 am
Today’s to do list is at http://garrisonmustgo.com/
This is the last week that we have a chance of affecting the composition of the BOG. There ned to be an intense focus on that.
June 23, 2008 at 6:17 am
rather than eliminating the pop tax, why not raise the pop tax so the HSC can pay their faculty a nationally competitive salary so we stop loosing surgeons and can provide the services the citizens of WV need ? I vote for a nickel instead of a penny.
June 23, 2008 at 6:39 am
If you read the continuation of the front page article re presidential compensation (see Steph’s first post above), you’ll see that a reader might infer that the reason Garrison was selected as president was that no one else would accept such a low salary. The salary offered had nothing to do with Garrison’s selection. There were many well qualified candidates in addition to Nellis and Bernstine and, had the BOG been interested in a real search, I’m certain a salary agreement could have been reached with them.
BOG member Capellanti suggests that the entire compensation package should be considered, which is the case, and thuse that the salary may not be too low. But the Chronicle of Higher Education annually publishes a supplement on executive compensation that provides information about base salary, housing allowance, car(s) provided, etc.
This is part of why we need BOG members more familiar with higher education. If there were someone on the BOG who knew higher ed, they could let the other members know about the Chronicle data.
I was surprised that Garrison accepted the low salary that he did. But I assumed that there were going to be other benefits down the line that he was expecting so he saw it as a short-term arrangement.
June 23, 2008 at 6:50 am
Word Problem of the day:
15 Million collected in pop tax for a year.
1c per can.
Assume 1.8 million people in the state. (Latest Census data)
How many soda’s per capita does a WVian drink in a year?
June 23, 2008 at 7:15 am
Good question WVCouch, and assuming only WVians drink the stuff (discounting all the traffic stopping for drink through the state), it costs less than $9.00/ person per year. At a cent a 1/2 liter you can bet you fanny that the price will not come down if omitted. HK is spot on, it is payoff of the political kind. If it were 5 cents/liter as Anne suggests, it might go a ways toward helping to pay for the cost of the obesity pop helps cause.
June 23, 2008 at 7:42 am
9.00 per person, 900 pops a year per person. That is a lot of soda.
Raise the tax to 10 cents, 5 cents rebate if you return and recycle. Extra goes into childhood obesity programs, parks and recreation, and education. More Taxes that actually would lengthen the life span of our state. Our census numbers would climb.
I would love to think about WV as the Colorado of the east, the healthiest east coast state. Jeesh, do you think that would even be possible?
At 1.30 for 1/2 liter of coke on regular price, the cost of soda is only going up. We tax the crap out of cigs, but pop, gets a gentle 1c? What is the number one killer in WV? Cigs and pop play a big role.
June 23, 2008 at 7:46 am
The pop tax has not been a burden on West Virginians and has helped this state build a medical center to provide health care to so many. I remember the days when one had to go to Pittsburgh for more complex medical care. That was so difficult and only people with insurance or money could do it. My mother was a nurse in the clinics for some years and she found it so gratifying to help children and adults from across WV. How petty and venial these politicians are! How foolish are the voters in WV who don’t understand they might to be robbed by “their own”.
June 23, 2008 at 7:48 am
Was the original intent of the pop tax as a “sin” tax? Because really what is 2c on a 2-liter bottle, it seems like kind of archaic anyway. I wouldn’t be sad to see it repealed but of course in politics nothing ever happens for a “good” reason.
June 23, 2008 at 7:56 am
Addendum - maybe we should increase the tax instead and divide the money more evenly with other health care providers in the state. Maybe we could also tax beer in the college towns. Oh no, not that. It might cut into the profits.
June 23, 2008 at 7:57 am
Larry Swann is the lobbyist for the soft drink and bottlers in this state. I would hardly say he is in bed with Joe Manchin.
In fact, Larry Swann is a former Republican House Minority Leader who supports a lot of Republican efforts. Swann does give to Democrats but only because he has to kill the fucking bottle bill every year.
I think most West Virginians would support the removal of this tax.
Perhaps we should add a tax to lawsuit settlements and awards. The revenue can be devoted to healthcare and medical facilities around the state. It really is a priviledge to go to court in this state, especially if you’re a personal injury lawyer.
TJ
June 23, 2008 at 8:01 am
West Virginia’s state slogan should be:
“Taxing Our People Into Properity”
Yea, let’s increase the tax burden on our state residents and businesses. I mean after all we are open for business and businesses always look for a state with a high tax burden.
June 23, 2008 at 8:09 am
I think we should raise the pop tax, but use the money to alleviate health problems caused in part by soft drinks. In the overall scheme of things, it doesn’t matter where the money comes from to support the med school. It can just get its budget needs met from general revenue appropriations like everyone else. But creating a sin tax on pop helps educate people that sugar water causes health problems, discourages its use, and connects the cause to the consequences, all worthwhile public policy goals in my opinion. However, I’m pretty sure that bottled water and tea are taxed just like pop, so maybe some changes need to be made in which beverages are covered.
June 23, 2008 at 8:24 am
A letter to the editor in the Gazette: Two occasions show governor’s dishonor
http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Letters/200806220169
June 23, 2008 at 8:25 am
I take back what I said above about water and tea also being subject to the pop tax.
June 23, 2008 at 8:38 am
While googling pop tax, check out what’s going on in some other states. This is not just “per can” tax. Business owners are being hit if the WV tax is also on syrups and mixes. I have not read enough to know. The business climate in WV is bad enough, and there could be support for removal of this tax.
We have to tax a lot of things fairly to run the state, but I’m against removal of this much revenue for WVU without a plan. Border WV’ns have shopped across state lines for years to avoid many of our other taxes.
The Capehart situation is more troubling, it is a total deja vue, and everyone at WLSC said their search was more of a joke than WVU’s. They just throw their hands up.
June 23, 2008 at 8:47 am
Lou:
I guess anyone who actually writes a letter means well, but this is rich:
“The governor’s daughter erroneously and, I say, arrogantly accepted an unearned MBA degree which is unheard of in the corridors of academia.”
Not a word about who fabricated the degree in the first place! A good joke for a Monday morning. Those boys in Stewart Hall were just handing things out in hopes that only non-arrogant people would know not to accept what was not earned. Does academic integrity need it’s own KGB to get the point across?
As for the pop tax, I’m wondering if it will be brought back in some states, in relation to all the obesity issues.
It’s not like tobacco taxes have slowed down tobacco use - how about entrance fees to all the smoking stations outside the hospitals? That’s a sad fact of life, especially the gowned people on IV’s who have to be on the fringes of the Ruby parking lot to smoke and be far enough away from the public entrances. Sorry to digress.
June 23, 2008 at 8:53 am
With regard to the WLSC presidential search, it’s probably better to say nothing and have people believe you a fool than to write untruths about the situation and prove it.
June 23, 2008 at 8:58 am
All through the 1950s and 60s as I grew up in WV, the UMWA and coal miners were often credited with getting the pop tax passed because they saw the benefits of having a medical center at WVU. I don’t know what role they actually played, but in general conversation, the coal miners were always given credit for the tax, and my coal miner relatives were proud of that. It might be good to look back at that early support and the rationale used at that time, if that has not already been done.
June 23, 2008 at 9:07 am
To Tony Jackson @8:01 … I prefer … “West Viginia - State of Denial” as the new state slogan.
June 23, 2008 at 9:07 am
LaReina:
The deja vue aspect of WLSC is clear enough in the State Journal article included by HK today, and many agree with his assessment. My other impressions come from senior level administrative sources who live with it - their opinions about their situation, about a place I also know fairly well. That is validity enough for me, under the circumstances. What burden of proof is expected in this, in order have an opinion? I did not solicit any opinions about the WLSC search to learn what people already think. I’m all for the truth. ?
June 23, 2008 at 9:23 am
Did anyone come across this survey from AARP in Arkansas, about pop tax and health care? What research has Mojo done to address any change in this tax?
Good point, 70’s grad.
http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/health/ar_tax.pdf
Maybe the trend is a national pop tax - WV would be in the lead!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11686974/print/1/displaymode/1098/
June 23, 2008 at 9:38 am
I don’t object to the pop tax, but for the proceeds to support only WVU-Morgantown is not a good idea. Spread the money around to others in WV who provide health professions education and care for WV residents.
The preferential treatment for WVU creates ill will on the part of other schools, and it has created a dependency that leads to complacency at HSC.
June 23, 2008 at 9:45 am
Here is the question. Is Manchin’sgutting of the pop to
l. A major step in privatizing/profitizing the whole health science operation?
OR
2. A prelude to a latter”Oh my God—we need anotrher source of ‘public financing.” Let the Table Games begin EVERYWHERE
June 23, 2008 at 10:04 am
I don’t object to the pop tax, either. I wouldn’t object to it being retained for its original purpose for the state’s medical school if the original need is still as valid. If it’s not, then someone needs to do some homework and show how things have changed.
Lou had mentioned earlier about the BOG knowing better how to research for their own work if more higher ed folks were on the board. Ditto state government. If policy is determined by lobbyists for pop or pharm, then no one is looking out for the people or the schools.
meanwhile - : P
I’d put my office on the pop tax issue, but right now, I’m paying my CoS to finish another project, and my legal counsel is tied up with my parking tickets. There are other departments I could delegate to also, but they need summer vacations. I’m just not sure how I can manage to do this job right, and research it like it deserves. I don’t want the legislative branch to mess anything up, either. Meanwhile, I’m busy coming up with other political appointments. It’s really tough to look out for the interests of the taxpayers. I’ll just have to do the best I can and hope no other family has to go through what I do, to do my job right.
June 23, 2008 at 10:05 am
West Virginia should increase the pop tax to 10 cents and use it to fund oral health care for children and adults. One reason we are one of the unhealthiest states in the nation is result of chronic oral infection which starts in childhood and causes all kinds of systemic health problems.
June 23, 2008 at 10:10 am
God save us from our friends. Arch Moore-an alum-gave Marshall the money to start Marshall Med School and now Joe Manchin-another alum-is going to destroy the HSC.
June 23, 2008 at 10:21 am
“I wouldn’t object to it being retained for its original purpose for the state’s medical school if the original need is still as valid. ”
Steph, there is not one WV medical school. Hell, I don’t even know how many there are now! WVU- Morgantown; WVU-Charleston; WVU-Eastern; Marshall; WV School of Osteopathic Medicine. Did I miss any? The various WVU programs may look like branches, but they don’t act as if they are.
June 23, 2008 at 10:37 am
HK, may want to check facts on the pop tax distribution. I think monies DO go to MU and maybe even to Lewisburg from the tax–though not near as much as to WVU. I think that was a compromise reached several years ago.
That still does not, nor should it, relieve us from the visual of MoJoe as an ass puppet. That hand must be way up in there in order to get his lips to move……
June 23, 2008 at 10:44 am
Can anyone help me figure out whether there’s a connection between the pop tax and Mylan? I mean, Mylan has an anti-pop-tax lobbyist on their Board of Directors. Is this just a case of people like Manchin, Bresch, and Cameron running in the same social circles, or is there more meaning to it? Does Mylan have an interest in bottled beverages?
Why do out-of-state bottlers care so much about this tax? Is it because it sets a bad precedent for them, and more states are looking at it as a revenue source?
June 23, 2008 at 10:47 am
The manufacturers don’t pay the tax.
Like every other tax, the customer is the one who pays it.
Bottled water and tea ARE taxed just like pop,
June 23, 2008 at 10:55 am
I don’t nomally give the guv much credit, but I know for a fact that he personally HATES softdrinks. I have to wonder if pepsi has offered to dramatically increase WV employees if the tax is killed. They do have an office in Hurricane iirc. I guess I’m just trying to think positive.
June 23, 2008 at 10:57 am
It is my understanding there is also a tax involved on the actual syrups and such. I am not a tax expert but there is a component of the tax that bottlers WOULD pay if they were in state. And that is the reason they are out-of-state. Maybe an expert on state taxes will chime in.
June 23, 2008 at 10:58 am
We do. It’s called income tax.
June 23, 2008 at 11:02 am
Manchin made TV advertisements with Division of Environmental Protection money at the end of 2007, claiming to be a suporter of recycling, but he has not ever suported the container recycling laws presented to the legislature. Free Campaign advertisisng, ya think.
Recycling creates jobs, cleans up our highways and roadsides, cuts down on litter and conserves natural resources.
June 23, 2008 at 11:24 am
I can’t find any reference in the State Code to sharing the pop tax with Marshall and the Osteopathic School, and the state budget shows $15,611,300 going to the WVU HSC that seems to be outside the general revenue funding stream. (Sorry folks, but I’m not very familiar with state appropriations and am not a lawyer. Just doing the best I can.) As far as I can tell, it all goes to WVU HSC. I have found a reference to legislation introduced to increase the pop tax, and divide the increase between Marshall and WVSOM, but I don’t think it went anywhere.
June 23, 2008 at 11:29 am
§11-19-2. Excise tax on bottled soft drinks, syrups and dry mixtures; disposition thereof.
For the purpose of providing revenue for the construction, maintenance and operation of a four-year school of medicine, dentistry and nursing of West Virginia University, an excise tax is hereby levied and imposed on and after midnight of the last day of June, one thousand nine hundred fifty-one, upon the sale, use, handling or distribution of all bottled soft drinks and all soft drink syrups, whether manufactured within or without this state, as follows:
(1) On each bottled soft drink, a tax of one cent on each sixteen and nine-tenths fluid ounces, or fraction thereof, or on each one-half liter, or fraction thereof contained therein.
(2) On each gallon of soft drink syrup, a tax of eighty cents, and in like ratio on each part gallon thereof, or on each four liters of soft drink syrup a tax of eighty-four cents, and in like ratio on each part four liters thereof.
(3) On each ounce by weight of dry mixture or fraction thereof used for making soft drinks, a tax of one cent or on each 28.35 grams, or fraction thereof, a tax of one cent.
Any person manufacturing or producing within this state any bottled soft drink or soft drink syrup for sale within this state and any distributor, wholesale dealer or retail dealer or any other person who is the original consignee of any bottled soft drink or soft drink syrup manufactured or produced outside this state, or who brings such drinks or syrups into this state, shall be liable for the excise tax hereby imposed. The excise tax hereby imposed shall not be collected more than once in respect to any bottled soft drink or soft drink syrup manufactured, sold, used or distributed in this state.
All revenue collected by the commissioner under the provisions of this article, less such costs of administration as are hereinafter provided for, shall be paid by him into a special medical school fund, which is hereby created in the state treasury, to be used solely for the construction, maintenance and operation of a four-year school of medicine, dentistry and nursing, as otherwise provided by law.
June 23, 2008 at 11:34 am
All of the proceeds of the pop tax go to WVU. Everyone has tried to get into the action. The pop guys would eliminate it and it would mean 15 million in their pockets-more to give to Uncle Joe. You don’t think pop will go down a penny do you?
June 23, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Isn’t it bizarre to propose the elimination of the pop tax while planning to keep on taxing prescriptions and food staples such as bread and milk? Do I remember correctly a lot of hand wringing in Charleston over the necessity of keeping a food tax because WV had no way to replace the income? So we eliminate the pop tax, replenish the pop tax fund for the medical school with tax money from the general fund? We are ahead in serving the people of this state - how? I’m sure some way can be found to explain this to the working poor and senior citizens.
June 23, 2008 at 12:50 pm
How much did it cost Joe to be named the honorary starter at the Coca Cola 600?
About 15 million a year, it seems.
June 23, 2008 at 1:11 pm
if you take away the pop tax support, you need to be ready to NOT provide health care to underinsured patients…………but you know us AMericans; we want the BEST Health care, we want it NOW,and we want it for FREE……………
June 23, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Soon the Welcome to West Virginia signs may have a Coke logo.
June 23, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I support keeping the pop tax and I agree that the price of soft drinks would not go down if it were taken away. It angers me that Joe Manchin is selling out the HSC to keep his promises to the soft drink industry. I guess we need to start letting our representatives know our position on this.
June 23, 2008 at 1:17 pm
wvuhscex: maybe you can answer a question that was discussed on this blog the other day. Someone had mentioned that the pop tax was matched 3-1, but then the consensus seemed to be that it was not. Now your comment seems to imply, once again, that the pop tax funds care for poor people. Can you expand a little? In what way does the pop tax provide care for the uninsured?
June 23, 2008 at 1:29 pm
It looks that way, doesn’t it WVU Employee? I’m opposed to a food tax in general but I have no problem taxing high sugar/high fat/unhealthy food and luxury items. Money needs to come from some place.
I’d be fine with higher taxes if we had universal health care. The US needs to face this issue before more people lose their homes, go bankrupt or die needlessly.
June 23, 2008 at 1:30 pm
From “They Called In the Bobs”:
The Medicaid Mystery Says:
June 15, 2008 at 8:37 am
PoeDunk at 7:41 a.m. I’m pretty sure any medical school money would have to pass through DHHR to leverage a match. Right now there’s somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 million of medical school money (both WVU and MU) passing through DHHR and leveraging Medicaid match. That amount has changed over the years. Three things -
I’m sure WVU and MU would pass more money through DHHR if they could leverage the match.
There is some question about the legality of this shell game.
Pop tax and Medicaid match are unrelated.
June 23, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Anyone have any idea how much charity care is given at UHA/WVUH?
June 23, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I said I did not think that the pop tax leveraged Medicaid match. I don’t know who said the top part re: DHHR.
June 23, 2008 at 2:08 pm
This is reported to the WV Health Care Authority (the charity care). I know that at one time Mon Gen was about the lowest percentage in WV, and it is likely that WVUH is high.
June 23, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Are we to understand that the the law cited @11:29am is the wording of the original 1951 pop tax legislation? Has it ever been adjusted?
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/inflation.htm
Inflation since then has been in excess of 1000%
Does the pop industry or tax payers really have anything to complain about with an unchanged WV tax rate?
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, no doubt I’m in over my head.
June 23, 2008 at 2:14 pm
OMG I just read the rest of that link - it has an “out of thin air” quote!!
June 23, 2008 at 2:15 pm
fisherfun….i am unaware of a direct connection between pop tax and indigent care……but WV is a poor state with LOTS of “no pay” indigent patients…….it is not unusual to have patients transferred to the “states charity hospital”(WVUH) to treat patients from around the state with things that can be taken care of closer to home………pneumonia from Welch eg…that is the way patients view this Hospital,and that is the way referring physicians view this hospital (especially on fridays or holiday weekends)….SO any $, brought by any means helps support this type of care……
June 23, 2008 at 2:24 pm
From the HCCRA 2006 annual report:
WVU hospital — 6.1% of its Gross Patient Revenue is uncompensated (which is the total of bad debt plus charity care). Same figure for CAMC is 7.5%; Beckley ARH 7.9%; Welch Community 18.1%; Cabell-Huntington 6.9%.
Total Uncompensated Care in WV General Acute Care Hospitals is $478 million. WVU provides $48 million, or about 10% of the total. CAMC provides $89 million, or about 19% of the total. Cabell-Huntington and St. Mary’s combined provide about 15% of the total. UHC provides about 5% of the total.
So while WVU maybe be providing a large chunk of the uncompensated care, others are doing as much or more. Also, many of the smaller hospitals are doing all they can do, given their low reimbursement rates. Many of the smaller hospitals have an even higher percentage of uncompensated care as a percent of total patient revenue. I’m assuming this is because more complex cases provide more ways for hospitals to bill. “Dumping” seems like such a perjorative term. Let’s just say they transfer patients to a more appropriate level of care.
June 23, 2008 at 2:28 pm
If — and this is a big “if” — the med schools are leveraging money by passing some of their general revenue appropriation through DHHR for the 3-1 match under Medicaid, who benefits from that? The med school doesn’t treat patients, so wouldn’t the Medicaid money have to go either to the hospital or the practice plan?
June 23, 2008 at 2:33 pm
the years that i experienced at WVUHSC (10 to be exact), pneumonia,urinary tract infections,hospital aquired pneumonias,kidney stones,(etcetcetc,eg) would ALL seem to be appropriately treated at a local Hospital…………but this type of discussion and issue is why you have many empty offices at the HSC……….maybe you could convince the folks from those other “charity” hospitals to come help out?………maybe some are even bright enough to run the place……..apparently the administration is in alot of trouble there…………
June 23, 2008 at 2:35 pm
How about sending those patients on to Wheeling Hospital? Or UPMC?
June 23, 2008 at 2:38 pm
By the way, that was a joke.
June 23, 2008 at 2:51 pm
LOL………..never had any luck with referrals north…………unless they knew that an insurance card was involved……health careis such a terrible business……BUT patients want it FAST,FREE,NOW
June 23, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Hey Steph - in spite of the Panel’s findings and based on what Garrison has said, the Governor’s daughter continues to maintain that she earned her degree, so I do not understand why anyone would think that she would decline the degree, but arrogantly accept it. To suggest otherwise indicates she knew all along she did not have the degree.
June 23, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Hey, where are you, azlo? We need an HSC update. Have you been hitting the high class bottle again?
June 23, 2008 at 5:23 pm
poliscigeek:
I know what you mean. At least that letter writer was half right, and not feeling sorry for poor Mike for something that happened “10 years ago” before he came.
fishferfun:
Your stats on idigent care - I never would have believed those ratios! Always assumed otherwise, and wrongly it seems.
June 23, 2008 at 7:02 pm
“Cool it on Capehart:” part of the deal Manchin cut with major Republicans that no one of any substance whatsoever run against him this year. Barring some sacrificial lamb stepping forward. That would be Weeks.
See also, elsewhere on Hippie Killer, Kay Goodwin being ordered to call off the dogs when Dave Tyson was being anointed the president of Concord.
June 23, 2008 at 9:06 pm
The point is… what do you want?
Do you want WVU SOM to be a competitive program? Then, you must engage in research. Is WVU SOM and HSC competitive, not yet, but it *was* headed in that direction. So, as you finally begin maturing to what you aspire, why cut the foundation out before you reach your mark? Once again, WVU seems determined to snuff out success right before it is achieved. The question is not whether the pop tax will be needed forever, but how long is it necessary to help the SOM transition to a competitive institution? That this is not part of the discussion is just plain stupid. Again.
Not to be snarky, but WVU will ALWAYS be a place of potential. But that is all, with this type of thinking.
June 23, 2008 at 9:07 pm
The question is not whether to keep the pop tax or not, but rather, when will it no longer be needed.
June 23, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Bobolink, right on! The potential has always been evident, and not just with the med school. On our side of the campus they didn’t have the leadership in Lang and Weete (I thought Weete became “invisible”) and of course Hardesty did not know the others weren’t good enough. If they filled the ranks with good faculty like they filled One Waterfront place and the assorted VP positions, some of the promise may have gotten fulfilled.
June 24, 2008 at 12:05 am
IT IS ROTTEN AT THE TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!……….HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT, AND NO GGOD CANDIDATE WOULD DARE THEIR REPUTATION ON THIS PLACE…..so either get someone retired who has nothing to lose,but has been successful in an academic environment, OR get someone young with smarts and energy, and give them the responsibility AND authority…….
June 24, 2008 at 9:34 am
“get someone young with smarts and energy, and give them the responsibility AND authority…….”
I’d be careful saying that, since that is the rationale of the BOG re: Garrison. No matter what we believe, that is what the general public still believes about MG.
June 24, 2008 at 10:38 am
molly’s mom…….good point…….but i know of many who have fit that bill in the past but have left….i guess i need to throw in “honesty,integrity,and a teamwork motivation committed to an academic environment” as qualifiers…….i cant tell you how many have left because they couldnt put up with the “business as usual” mentality…….
June 24, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I also know that what you are saying is true. Such a shame to lose good people. But really who could stay in that setting?
June 24, 2008 at 2:41 pm
amen…………………POTENTIAL!…………………that’s why these “ex”WVU people still care……
June 25, 2008 at 9:45 am
I know things have gotten a bit past the discussion of which hospital does more for charity patients–I won’t really get into bad debt, because tose are patients the hospital THOUGHT would pay their bill, but did not, and a lot of that are those pesky copays that people can’t afford or choose to buy hunting gear, beer, etc. instead of paying–but it does bear painting a more accurate picture than Fisherfun and other have apinted for the hospitals in the state.
CAMC does indeed provide more charity care than WVU Hospital, but remember a couple points 1) CAMC is a hell of a lot bigger than WVU Hospital, to the tune of about 760 beds to 500 beds. 2) Therefore CAMC sees more patients, about 34,000 inpatients compared to 21,000 at WVU Hospitals.
Now before any of you go running to your keyboard to talk about the fact that on an equalized, percentage basis, the charity/uncompensated care provided at CAMC is higher, a couple points here
1) If you for to the Health Care Authority’s (www.hcawv.org) 2007 annual report, citing 2006 data, CAMC has more than a BILLION dollars in gross revenue cmpared with about 760 million or so at WVUH; neither is chump change, but I’m just sayin’, that’s a big business there in Charleston.
2) CAMC provides more charity and uncompensated care than WVUH BECAUSE IT MUST. CAMC sees a lot more folks from southern WV and despite the prosperity in Advantage Valley, many of the poorer counties are in the southern part of the state and CAMC is the flagship. WVUH is in the northern part of the state with patients coming from more prosperous counties. If you switch the location of the two hospitals, I bet you get a switch in those percentages just because of the reality of the economy.
3) And don’t forget, the southern Division of the WVU Health Sciences Center is located at CAMC. So you have the HSC represented at both campuses.
This all goes back to the Pop Tax–which I am grateful that someone who is knowledgeable corrected me on the sharing of the monies–I thought that bill passed. Many others more eloquent than I stated it: The funding of the HSC needs to come from somewhere, or else there will be even more issues with delivering care to all, including those who cannot pay. The point is, neither CAMC nor WVUH is going to turn away anyone who can’t pay; they can’t and won’t.
By the way, good old, elite Mon General’s charity/uncompensated burden was 4.1%, or about $10 million, smaller than any other hospital of any size in the state. Only about 1.9 million of that was charity; the rest was bad debt the elite failed to pay. But that’s another issue entirely. Good thing the blue bloods in Morgantown still have a plce to go and be cared for shuttered away from the real world, especially with Mon’s new Ivory Tower being completed soon.
June 25, 2008 at 10:40 am
turnip truck driver……..how many “providers” of health care are at WVUH and CAMC……..and i bet you will find that the University docs provide the LION’s share of charity care in the state…………
June 25, 2008 at 11:30 am
Does simply having insurance qualify a person as elite? That’s pretty broad. My son has no insurance and went to Mon General ER. I think the average person who needs a doctor doesn’t understand all the distinctions and doesn’t care about the politics.
June 25, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Yes, Ann, these days having insurance may very well make a person elite. The point about Mon Gen’s low rate of “charity care” is still a good one. That is an elitist hospital.
June 25, 2008 at 1:51 pm
If you have a life-threatening condition or a condition that if not addressed immediately could permanently damage your health, ANY hospital with an emergency department is REQUIRED to at least stabilize you, and then has the option of shipping you elsewhere, i.e. WVUH. Or, if your doctor is on the staff at, say, Mon General, even if you don’t have insurance, he can insist you be treated there. However, if you don’t pay you will be hounded within an inch of your life–take it from someone who paid off $18,188 to the penny because of no insurance at the time. It took four back-breaking years, but it is done.
June 25, 2008 at 2:43 pm
the insurance issue is big…….i can tell you that Americans want it NOW,FREE, and the BEST…..but they dont want to pay for it…….or copays……..these issues are central to charity care
June 25, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Manchin sell WVU Out???!!! You wouldn’t mean like with Garrison? Walker???? his own wench of a daughter - I mean come on she’s like a prostitute that took your money from the counter and ran out when you were naked. Putting WVU through this… she should pay the $30K+ for the investigation and all that… Does anyone think that with 8 board of goveners appointed by this jackass that this would have happened? Come on to be this much of a fuck up, it has to be planned!!! This guy sucks.
June 25, 2008 at 11:14 pm
http://kanawhacountyblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/say-its-not-so-joe.html
June 25, 2008 at 11:28 pm
JP, the link you posted is really interesting, but is it credible?
June 25, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Back to WVU HSC and I mean Morgantown. The money stays in Morgantown folks — it doesn’t migrate east or south. Just ask those outside of the main campus — folks in Charleston, Parkersburg and the eastern panhandle. Once in Motown; always in Motown. And god forbid, when the legislature, the governor’s office or state government gets a grand idea to consolidate and ask Motown to take on problems like WVU Tech. Just ask folks in Montgomery what happens under these circumstances. Things just get worst and extra money flows north. There is one college in the Kanawha Valley that sure is glad they didn’t hook up with Motown — WV State University. They have done well without Motown’s divine intervention (and help). Fixing things is not a skill that folks at WVU possess. Always follow the money. And remember that the state as a whole is not WVU-Motown’s concern.
And now back to the research enterprise. Just saw the numbers of WVU’s federal funds — around 50 million per year — lots of indirect payments on that kind of cash. Who knows about the WVU research corporation? What are they doing with indirects anyway? It is just too late for WVU to become a premier research university - for many reasons - too close to the Pittsburgh competition, not enough bodies to adequately enroll in research trials, not the willingness to expand beyond Morgantown (yeah that problem of what is in Morgantown stays in Morgantown even if it hurts themselves or others) and to top it off the federal research dollars are drying up just at a time when WVU thinks it can expand. And just in time for WVU to lose “Big Daddy”. This is research enterprise is being built on thin ice.
Yes, I am hip and skeptical
June 26, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Its knot fare that wvwho gets all the pop tax money. Are Medical School at Marshall is the best in the state. Its time four people too realize that we offer a first class education at Marshall. An its time we get are fare share. We should also half a Pharmacy School, a Dental School an a Law School to. I’m tired of MU being treated as a second class institution.
June 26, 2008 at 5:36 pm
murox, i dont know anyone who can type so many poorly constructed words…good job, isuspect you’re ENGLISH faculty at WVU?…….
June 28, 2008 at 5:27 pm
This coziness with the pop industry also explains why MoJo sold out school kids in his much-touted “Healthy Lifestyles” legislation in 2005. That bill went through several incarnations, all driven by the soft drink lobby, at ultimately did NOTHING to reduce soft drink sales in schools. It was interesting to watch the soft drink lobbyist coaching MoJo’s lackies before committee hearings on the bill.
While claimimg to fight childhood obesity Manchin let the pop industry continue to pump high sugar content beverages to school kids and keep their logo-emblazened vending machines in place.
It should be required that Republican governors be registered Republican! Hell - Weeks is a jackass but at least he’s registered in the correct party.
June 28, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Local school boards are responsible for rules re: sugary drinks in school. About half the counties are strong enough to get them out of school, and half are gutless.
June 28, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I’m no fan of soda in schools, but it’s a tough call for the more impoverished (i.e., Most) counties. They loose a lot of money when they get rid of the vending machines.
June 28, 2008 at 6:30 pm
HK, I’m not sure the research bears that out.
June 29, 2008 at 7:53 am
Molly, quite true.
In fact several countied retain vending machines that only dispense H2O, 100% fruit juice and low-fat milk. Sales continue as does revenue. The kids will drink what they can get.
Grant County is an excellent example of this though there are others.
As for the need for any revenue do we really have to put kids health at rist to pay for education? Hell, if that’s the case, let’s just sell ‘em cigarettes. Much higher profit could be realized.
June 29, 2008 at 8:53 pm
HK, I’ve also wondered if you really posted that remark. it seems very un-Hippy Killer. The “soda” doesn’t ring true. Isn’t it “pop?” And the loose for lose bothered me, although I know I’ve posted with typos.
June 30, 2008 at 2:58 am
Yeah, that was me. “Loose” and “lose” are words I have trouble with. I’ve long been told that I’m mildly dyslexic. Seriously.
But I don’t know what I was thinking when I said “soda,” since we all know it’s REALLY called “pop.” I guess I was trying to sound smarter. Oh the irony…
But schools make a lot of money from vending machines. And switching out the Doritos and Mountain Dew Code Red for apples and milk isn’t always as simple as it sounds.
And then there’s the fact that milk isn’t exactly great for you either. Or, at least, it’s closer to what Cookie Monster calls a “sometimes food.”
June 30, 2008 at 6:50 am
I can get you facts if you want them. Half of the schools, many rural and lower income, have made the switch. Low fat milk is fine especially for developing bones. Kids are fine with switching. Concerned about appearance, if not health.
Whew, I’m glad it was you. HK, you are my hero,and I don’t have all that many.
June 30, 2008 at 7:48 am
Just so the point of my original post isn’t missed:
Manchin doing the bidding to the “pop” industry during the passage of the healthy lifestyles legislation in 2005 is a classic example of his being the industries ass puppet.
Yes, some school districts are doing a good job - but the 2005 legislation was specifically addressing childhood obesity and Manchin chose his soft drink industry friends over the health of West Virginia’s children.
Of course, he then has spent years saying he has worked so hard to fight childhood obesity. So hard, in fact, that Queen Gayle is in charge of the “Healthy Lifestyles” programs. Gayle and this group opposed legislation during the last session which would have simply required calorie count information on restaurant menus. But this legislation was opposed by the big reastaurant chains - who are represented by Nick Casey - and Nick and Gayle made sure the legislation died.
Frankly, it looks to me like Manchin is the ass puppet of (fill in the blank) industry.
July 1, 2008 at 5:38 am
And
July 1, 2008 at 5:40 am
also ass puppet for Big Pharma. Decent editorial in the Gazette this morning, “Payola, Doctors & Drugs:
http://wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/200806300496
But they buried their lead in the final paragraph, which reads:
“This disclosure about doctor payola adds a spotlight to West Virginia’s ongoing problem with the state Pharmaceutical Cost Management Council, which voted to conceal the names of Mountain State physicians who take more than $10,000 each per year from drug firms.”
July 2, 2008 at 7:29 pm
I am afraid you are right about all of that Sabocat. And the pharmaceutical scam goes without saying.